What Does Don't Pass Mean In Craps

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Ahigh
So I've made this point to many people in the casino, but I've never really brought it up in an online forum, so I figured now is as good of a time as any.
If you understand the game and every last detail about it, there's no compelling reason to bet the pass line over the don't pass line or vice versa.
HOWEVER
Most people don't understand the game all that well. Especially the psychological aspects of the game. And for this reason, I am going to make the argument that if you want to prevent yourself from busting out, the don't pass line is a better approach.
I think this matters less for folks with patience enough to only bet on one number at a time instead of betting the come bet and other bets. But I wanted to get a discussion going about the psychology of having a better chance of staying in the game if you bet the don't pass instead of the pass.

Craps: The numbers 2, 3 and 12. Crap Out: Rolling the number 2, 3, or 12 on the first roll. Dealer: The one who is responsible for all the bets made on his half of the table. Dime: Two $5 chips. Don't Come Bet: A bet made after the come-out roll. Don't Pass Bet: A bet that the dice will not pass (win); can only be placed right before a come-out. Betting on the pass line means betting WITH the shooter, while laying don’t pass bets means betting AGAINST the shooter. Gamblers who bet with the shooter are called “right” bettors, while those lay wagers against the shooter are called “wrong” bettors. Craps Check: Betting on any craps during the come out roll to hedge your pass line bet. Don't Come bet: A don't pass bet made after the point is established. Don't Pass bet: A bet that the shooter will not make his point. Double odds: An odds bet that is twice the size of the original pass/come bet. Some casinos offer higher odds. The house edge for the pass and come bets is the same, 1.41%, which means they qualify. The house edge for the don’t pass and don’t come bets is even lower, 1.36%, but the 0.05% isn’t worth worrying about. Most people prefer to root for the shooter to succeed. The other bet to think about at the craps table is the odds bet.

DeMango
I think that if a don't player would hit his point, the 7, he should not lose his turn. That rule change might turn this game around!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Ahigh
On a per-table basis, at $1,000,000 per year per table on AVERAGE, craps, as a game, beats every other table game except baccarat.
http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=9031
I can't say that if every blackjack table were converted to a craps table if that would continue to be the case. Blackjack has a lot less overhead in terms of square footage, personnel, and training dealers to be able to operate the game without losing money due to errors.
Part of what I am saying is that casinos tend to get bigger bets by encouraging players to parlay their winnings, ESPECIALLY on the place bets.
I have begun to really pull back my comments and just watch, and I really see dealers having players press their place bets so much so that nobody has a chance to win with those terrible compound edges on the 4, 5, 9, and 10. But even avoiding those subjects, just taking bets that are unlikely to win (bet bigger and bigger odds expecting to get extra-ordinarily lucky) it seems to set people up to fail.
People worry too much about the bet amount and not enough about the chance to win, effectively, is what I am thinking. Or when they want a better chance to win, they add in one-roll bet to ensure that they will get paid on the 2, 3, 11, or 12 instead of laying odds on a don't.
RS
One thing I don't like about the don't-pass is if you lose a couple bets, it's going to take more than the same amount of bets to win [at least when you lay odds].
On the other hand, with the pass line, you can get 5 PSO's in a row, have a shooter hit 2 points, and you're back to even (or just about). But with the don'ts.....if the shooter hits 2 or 3 points, it's going to take 5+ seven out's to recoup (even though the seven out is more likely than hitting the point).
I don't like that psychological part of the don't pass.
odiousgambit
Things about the Darkside [I've listed these before]:
I like
*that a player is less prone to demoralizing losing streaksMachines
*how easy it is with 3x4x5x knowing what to put up for odds
*how the free odds are active bets all the time without having to say anything during the come-out
*having multiple DC bets rather than multiple Come bets up, for those times going for broke

Craps Don't Pass Strategy

but I don't like
*giving up the dice as the shooter after a 7-out.
*the temptation to switch back and forth trying to guess which way to go; it is stronger, and deadly
*missing out on the fun playing it dark when a shooter makes several hands... and you take a big hit, but it's not just about the money but the fun too
*feeling a rookie dealer has to be watched carefully for errors
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
RS

*giving up the dice as the shooter after a 7-out.


I saw a guy shooting the dice from the dark-side for about 20 minutes the other day, just by himself (well, 2 others), but no action on the table really other than the line bets. He'd get 3-4 don't-come bets out there with some odds, hit the point, then rolled a 7 on the come out and won all his DC's. Then established a point, traveled 3-4 more DC's, hit the point, 7 on come-out to win all his DC's, rinse wash repeat.
I thought it was pretty cool, since usually when a don't-shooter wins his bets, he loses the dice. But this guy was shooting 7's and winning his DC's during the come out roll (but of course, losing his don't-pass). He wasn't some dice-controller or anything like that. Just hit the right numbers at the right times.
terapined

So I've made this point to many people in the casino, but I've never really brought it up in an online forum, so I figured now is as good of a time as any.
If you understand the game and every last detail about it, there's no compelling reason to bet the pass line over the don't pass line or vice versa.
HOWEVER
Most people don't understand the game all that well. Especially the psychological aspects of the game. And for this reason, I am going to make the argument that if you want to prevent yourself from busting out, the don't pass line is a better approach.
I think this matters less for folks with patience enough to only bet on one number at a time instead of betting the come bet and other bets. But I wanted to get a discussion going about the psychology of having a better chance of staying in the game if you bet the don't pass instead of the pass.


I never ever played craps untill I found the Wiz's odds site.
Once reading the odds site, I am strictly a dark sider and I really enjoy playing craps in Vegas.
Surprised how few craps players play the dark side.
I allways smile and really enjoy the company of other darksiders at a craps table but its actually somewhat rare.
Its all about the odds in my opinion playing any game in Vegas.
I also love throwing the dice. Its the only time I consider playing pass. Right now if not throwing the dice, strictly dark, if throwing, I find my self about half the time playing pass. Too me gambling is about fun and its fun to throw the dice.
'Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time' -Grateful Dead- 'Loser'
jkluv7
The DON'T is the funnest bet on the table.
If you feel youe just HAVE to join the 'fun' of the DO bettors, then Place the 6/8 and cheer with the rest !!
Here are some 'quotes' from this site with the numbers proving the DON't betting:
1 in 9 will 7out on the 2nd roll (11.11%)
Slightly more than 1 in 9 will 7out on the 3rd roll (11.7%)
That makes about 22.8%.
So out of 1 million shooters (random AND DIs) over 228,000 will 7out by the 3rd roll.
Slightly more than 1 in 10 will 7out on the 4th roll (10.5%)
So, about 33.3% will 7out by the 4th roll.
50% of all shooters will 7out by the 6th roll.
You should know that about 60% of all shooters never make one point before they 7 out.
It is the odds on favorite and should be expected.
of course over any 10 shooter orbit about 1 in 8 will have 6 or more in a row not hitting one point.
No wonder why I have seen many high rollers (the smart craps players - some say the only smart players)
laying the point. They win the most times and the most money.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/10510-iron-cross-and-hedges/3/
Those that do not know the math or believe the math of what is expected by each shooter, mostly live by
their own superstitions or from unreliable facts from the memory of past events.
The 3rd roll by any shooter has the highest probability to 7out on. (relative column)
The second highest probability is the 2nd roll.
1 out of 3 shooters go out by their 4th roll
Half go out by their 6th roll
Craps Shooter Length of a Shooters Hand
rolls or more 1 in or less rolls relative 1 in
3 0.88888888888888 1.1 11.1111111111% 2 0.111111111 9.0
4 0.77211934156378 1.3 22.7880658436% 3 0.116769547 8.6
5 0.66735253772290 1.5 33.2647462277% 4 0.104766804 9.5
6 0.57612890882995 1.7 42.3871091170% 5 0.091223629 11.0
7 0.49721087042117 2.0 50.2789129579% 6 0.078918038 12.7
8 0.42904410662521 2.3 57.0955893375% 7 0.068166764 14.7
9 0.37019134854117 2.7 62.9808651459% 8 0.058852758 17.0
10 0.31939069865160 3.1 68.0609301348% 9 0.050800650 19.7
odiousgambit

50% of all shooters will 7out by the 6th roll. [etc, etc]


You seem to be making a case for not paying even money on darkside lay bets. Oh, wait, they thought of that!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
befamous7
Ahigh, in another post you said 'I am there to be entertained' in regards to playing craps. I feel the exact same way.
There are a couple reasons why I usually avoid playing the don't.
1. My bankroll. It's too small to be laying odds if I'm not doing so hot from the start.
2.The entertainment factor. Honestly, it's just not fun playing the DP. I hate not being able to cheer with everyone when they win and everyone being happy when everyone else is upset when they lose. I'm usually playing with friends who don't understand the game like I do. I've played the DP while they have played the PL and it was pretty awkward to say the least.
Bottom line is the PL offers way more entertainment value to me.

Craps is a fun game, and there’s no doubt about it. But just because you’re having fun, it doesn’t mean you’re always winning. Personally, I haven’t spent as much time at the craps table as some other games. I’ve been playing off and on for a few decades. In that time, I’ve learned many important lessons about craps.

The most important lesson I’ve learned about craps is that it’s not a game that can be beat in the long run. This doesn’t necessarily make craps unique, though, because most casino games are the same in this regard.

Here’s a list of seven lessons I’ve learned over the years playing craps for real money. Now, you can learn from my mistakes so that you don’t have to lose money learning the same lessons.

The Best Way Is the Wrong Way

When I make a come-out roll bet at the craps table, I always use the don’t pass option. According to many craps players at the tables I’ve played at over the years, this is the wrong way to play.

For some reason, many superstitious gamblers believe that if you don’t use the pass line option, you’re betting against the other players. The problem with this is that the don’t pass option is always better statistically than the pass line option.

If you want to use the best option on a come-out roll, you have to forget about what anyone else thinks. I don’t care what anyone else says unless they’re giving me money to bet. As long as I’m betting my money, I’m going to gamble on what gives me the best chance to win.

The don’t pass option offers a slightly higher return than the pass line, so it’s the best opening wager to make. This is all that matters and all you need to know when you play craps.

The Odds Bet is Really Good

Usually, when you read about the odds in relation to gambling, you’re reading about your chance to win. But when you read about the odds bet at the craps table, you’re reading about a special betting option called the odds.

You can look at every craps wager using traditional odds, and it’s good to do this. But the odds wager is a bet that every craps player needs to know about and use.

When you look at every wager available in a casino, you’re going to find that they all have a casino house edge built in. Every wager in the casino is designed to make the casino money except one. That bet is the odds wager at the craps table.

The odds wager has a return to player, in the long run, of 100%. What this means in practice is that every dollar you risk on the odds, over the course of your craps gambling life, is going to be returned to you. In other words, the odds wager is the only break even or fair wager in the casino.

The only way you can make an odds wager is by placing a come-out wager. If you bet on the come-out roll and a point gets set, you can place an odds wager before the next roll.

You learned in the first section that the don’t pass option is the best bet. This means the best way to play craps is bet on don’t pass, then use the odds. This gives you the best chance to win.

Every Other Wager Is Terrible or Worse

Outside of the two best wagers at the craps table, there are many other betting options. The pass line isn’t much worse than the don’t pass, but it’s still worse so you shouldn’t use it.

When you evaluate the return numbers for every other available craps wager, you can quickly see that none of the other options are as good as the two best bets listed in the previous sections. This means that you should never make any other craps wagers. Some of them are worse than others, but none of them give you a chance at a high return like don’t pass and the odds.

Some of the craps wagers called “inside bets” are worse than slot machines. And slot machines are among the worst casino games to play in terms of returns.

Don

Online and Mobile Craps Are Good and Bad

When I started playing craps, the only option was to play in a land-based casino. Eventually, online casinos started offering craps tables, and mobile casinos became a thing. The main lesson I learned is that mobile, online, and land-based craps are all the same.

When you play online and mobile craps, you can make smaller wagers, find games with the highest odds wager amounts, and control how fast you play. These can all be advantages, but they don’t really change anything.

The biggest downside to playing mobile and online craps is that you might play faster than when you play live. Instead of playing 50 or 60 rolls an hour, you might play 400 or more rolls every hour. This means that even if you’re betting less per roll, you can still end up risking more than you do when you play live craps.

Craps Gambling Systems Don’t Ever Work

Craps systems aren’t as popular as roulette betting systems, but they have at least one thing in common. The main thing that craps systems and roulette systems have in common is that they don’t work.

When you learn exactly how the numbers and math works at the craps table, you can get a clear understanding why craps systems don’t work.

Everything is based on the probabilities of rolling two dice. The probabilities dictate how often each possible roll comes up, and the amount you win based on what wagers you make dictate how much you win or lose over time.

The numbers are clear in craps. No matter what system you try, you’re going to lose in the long run.

The Long-Term Outlook Is Bad

The long-term outlook for craps players is bad. Even when you stick with the two best wagers, you’re still playing with a disadvantage. The casino always wins at the craps table in the long run.

As long as gamblers are willing to play craps, the casinos are going to keep offering it. And the truth is that there are worse casino games you can play. When you play craps using only the two best wagers, you’re playing with a higher return than most other games.

But there are a few better opportunities in most casinos. You have to use good strategy and find the right games, but blackjack and video poker both offer opportunities to play with a higher return number. Even baccarat, when you bet on the banker, has a higher return than craps.

In the long run, craps isn’t a good option for gamblers. I understand that craps is fun, but I prefer to look for opportunities to make money over having fun. What do you want when you gamble—fun or a better chance to win?

Dice Control Is a Pipe Dream

A few gamblers claim that they can beat craps using dice control. And if dice control really worked, you could make a profit playing craps.

The main problem is that I’ve never seen any proof that dice control works, and I’ve never been able to make it work. As far as I’m concerned, dice control is a pipe dream.

Dice control is just like craps systems. It promises profits but just ends up costing you money. If you think you can make dice control work, feel free to give it a try. But even the people that say it works claim that you need thousands of hours of practice.

If you’re going to invest 1,000 or more hours into mastering something, you’re going to make a lot more money as a blackjack counter or poker player.

What Does Don't Pass Mean In Craps Terms

What Does Don

Best Chances to Win at Craps

What Does Don't Pass Mean In Craps Games

It took me quite a few years to figure it out, but when I play craps now, I only place two wagers. These two bets give me the best chance to win, no matter what anyone else says or thinks. If you’re making any other wagers, you’re not giving yourself the best chance to win.

What Does Don't Pass Bar Mean In Craps

In the end, there’s not much difference between online, mobile, and live craps play. They all have advantages and disadvantages, and you’re not going to beat any of them in the long run.

Craps systems and dice control aren’t going to help you win, no matter how good they sound. The long term outlook playing craps isn’t good, so you need to decide if craps is the right game for you.