by admin
Electronic Roulette Machine Rigged
- Electronic Roulette Machine Rigged Jackpots
- Rigged Roulette Wheel
- Casinos With Electronic Roulette Machines
- Electronic Roulette Machine Rigged Machine
- I have been playing roulette for just two years and practically all of my play has been on the electronic roulette games with real-wheel action to watch, seated with up to eleven other players; the game is played on a touch-screen for placing bets, etc. The two machines here in Arizona are the Interblock Organic and the Vegas Star.
- Organic Roulette is a fully automated version of the roulette game, available with a single or double-zero roulette wheel. You can see that the generator is perfectly shielded, as it is covered by a glass dome that prevents unauthorized access into the machine’s interior.
- The Contemporary Way. As technology developed, the methods of rigging a roulette wheel became more complex. The majority of older methods had the following relevant issue, the wires or levers needed to be run to and from the wheel, which tied the latter to the roulette table.
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And now last 1 year it is killing a machine. If it is a real wheel and no electronic in it. Example that it proofs all the live roulette online is rigged!!
30 members have voted
charliepatrick
(i) In most casinos I know the electronic Roulette allows bets at a lower level than at live tables. You also still have the option to bet on Table#1 rather than the 'Auto'. Some players like it because they aren't pushed around by others trying to get their bets on. From a casino viewpoint I can imagine it requires fewer staff so can run 24/hr.
(ii) Suppose a company advertised that they did add a random bump to the wheel then it's an interesting argument whether the game is still defined as Roulette. In the UK this might mean it becomes a fruit machine and different rules apply. I have seen a machine using a bingo cage with 37 balls, and am guessing that still counts as Roulette (but I haven't ever checked it out). Obviously if they only did something when it felt threatened then my feeling is the machine has introduced intelligence, so it isn't truly random and arguably might no longer be Roulette.
(iii) In the UK most casino fruit machines are random, but ones found in pubs can be compensated (i.e. will tend to pay less after a series of big wins) and licensed slightly differently. This introduces another factor: whether the game is random or compensated. I'm guessing 'table games' in a casino have to be random and any other game (e.g. fruit machine) that can pay big wins has to remain random. Any game that isn't random might be considered a compensated game, has to advertise the fact and have a lower payout limit.
https://wizardofodds.com/blog/gambling-united-kingdom/
(ii) Suppose a company advertised that they did add a random bump to the wheel then it's an interesting argument whether the game is still defined as Roulette. In the UK this might mean it becomes a fruit machine and different rules apply. I have seen a machine using a bingo cage with 37 balls, and am guessing that still counts as Roulette (but I haven't ever checked it out). Obviously if they only did something when it felt threatened then my feeling is the machine has introduced intelligence, so it isn't truly random and arguably might no longer be Roulette.
(iii) In the UK most casino fruit machines are random, but ones found in pubs can be compensated (i.e. will tend to pay less after a series of big wins) and licensed slightly differently. This introduces another factor: whether the game is random or compensated. I'm guessing 'table games' in a casino have to be random and any other game (e.g. fruit machine) that can pay big wins has to remain random. Any game that isn't random might be considered a compensated game, has to advertise the fact and have a lower payout limit.
https://wizardofodds.com/blog/gambling-united-kingdom/
darkoz
Question for the wizard
Trying to think how the wheel would steer the ball im guessing either altering the wheel speed or air pressure inside the glass dome
Either way the computer would need to know the speed of the ball in order to steer it away from the late bettors numbers
I.e. the wheel has its own form of wheel clocking
If so then it may not be a stretch to assume it always wheel clocks to determine if an actual bettor is even near the expected outcome
And if this is the case then yout methodology would be faltered. You stated that as neither u nor mr c were wheel clockers you simply bet quintets centered on the number 2 spins previously an outcome. The software may have been determining that your wheel clocking was in error (as inevitably it would since your actual wagers were not based on actual wheel clocking and in those instances no counter measures would have been appropriate
However it seems you may have discounted this possibility as you attempted to trigger the allegged countermeasures simply by late betting in centered quintuplets
Can u clarify if this is a possibility
Trying to think how the wheel would steer the ball im guessing either altering the wheel speed or air pressure inside the glass dome
Either way the computer would need to know the speed of the ball in order to steer it away from the late bettors numbers
I.e. the wheel has its own form of wheel clocking
If so then it may not be a stretch to assume it always wheel clocks to determine if an actual bettor is even near the expected outcome
And if this is the case then yout methodology would be faltered. You stated that as neither u nor mr c were wheel clockers you simply bet quintets centered on the number 2 spins previously an outcome. The software may have been determining that your wheel clocking was in error (as inevitably it would since your actual wagers were not based on actual wheel clocking and in those instances no counter measures would have been appropriate
However it seems you may have discounted this possibility as you attempted to trigger the allegged countermeasures simply by late betting in centered quintuplets
Can u clarify if this is a possibility
gordonm888
Of course, there is zero point zero chance of a lawsuit by Interblock.1. It would call attention to the issue. The media attention to the lawsuit would cause damage to the industry in general and to Interblock specifically.
2. The Wizard has absolutely done nothing to object to. He made no AP play, lost money and wrote some internet posts analyzing his losses and concluding that there was no conclusive evidence of 'countermeasure devices' on the Interblock roulette wheel. He was careful with his words.
3. Lawsuits are expensive. In fact they are worse than that -they are an un-bounded expense for an open-ended period of time. No business wants that - businesses are all about avoiding lawsuits, not entering into them. The only people who win in lawsuits are the lawyers.
Electronic Roulette Machine Rigged Jackpots
4. Any Interblock lawsuit on what Michael Shackleford has done would most likely be in jeopardy of penalties associated with frivolous lawsuits.Rigged Roulette Wheel
5. The Wizard's posts have already been copied by WOV forumites and would be propagated on the internet by multiple individuals if the Wizard was forced to remove them. They already are immortal - they will live forever.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
gordonm888
These posts by the Wizard are something that the entire forum should be able to rally around. I think this investigation into the Interblock Organic Roulette Wheel has been one of Shackleford's finest moments. Surely no one on this forum would support the use of any gambling devices that are rigged to depart from randomness without any notice to the gamblers. No forum member should object to such an investigation when conducted with such integrity and high standards and reported on in such an exemplary fashion.
Casinos With Electronic Roulette Machines
Reasonable people can disagree on the significance of what the Wizard has posted and on how to interpret the data and his words. But I am dismayed that several forum members have made posts that are hostile to the fact that he has said anything at all about this subject. This thread has had the effect of identifying to me some of the devils in this forum.
Praise to Michael Shackleford and the Wizard of Vegas forum.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
Wizard
Administrator
Administrator
Trying to think how the wheel would steer the ball im guessing either altering the wheel speed or air pressure inside the glass dome
Either way the computer would need to know the speed of the ball in order to steer it away from the late bettors numbers
Quote:
If so then it may not be a stretch to assume it always wheel clocks to determine if an actual bettor is even near the expected outcome
And if this is the case then yout methodology would be faltered. You stated that as neither u nor mr c were wheel clockers you simply bet quintets centered on the number 2 spins previously an outcome. The software may have been determining that your wheel clocking was in error (as inevitably it would since your actual wagers were not based on actual wheel clocking and in those instances no counter measures would have been appropriate
Like I said, the alleged red flags were late bets, big bets, and section bets. I never said it tested for player accuracy as well. The allegation was that the game would countermeasures if these red flags were raised even if the arc chosen was random. It is a fair question to ask that if the game could steer the ball accurately from sections bet, why didn't it test for accuracy? I don't have an answer. I was just confirming or denying an accusation presented to me.
However it seems you may have discounted this possibility as you attempted to trigger the allegged countermeasures simply by late betting in centered quintuplets
Can u clarify if this is a possibility
Yes, it is possible that while red flags were set off, the game may have judged that the sections bet were overall random, looking at the history bet and so it let the ball land randomly. Much like a casino floorman may let a perceived bad card counter, which many are, play blackjack.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
darkoz
Was looking into it in nys. Can tell u now at least one casino with 2 interblock organic roulette the ball does not spin until bets are disallowed. Other company e-roulette at the same casino gives 4 seconds
Any possibilty interblock has been approached and already moved to correct this
Any possibilty interblock has been approached and already moved to correct this
Keyser
The game has a servo motor running it. You can clearly see the rotor changing speeds during the spin AFTER no more bets has been called.
In general, roulette players are some of the weirdest people you will meet. I once met one that would cover his electronic game screen with cardboard because he thought surveillance was watching to see what he'd bet so that they could steer the ball away from his numbers! They tend to be very conspiracy minded from the get go. (And NO I'm not talking about Mr. S or whatever his name is here.) I'm referring to the real roulette junkies. Many roulette players won't play the electronic versions of it because they don't allow bets after the ball is spun *even when they're betting on the outside/red/black/etc..* It's because they simply don't trust the game. They think it will 'shoot against them.' Again, if a machine calls off bets before a ball is spun, roulette players will see the game as being RIGGED against them. So reprogramming a machine to call 'no more bets' before the ball is spun, or a ball that bounces to much just spooks the junkies away from the game. It takes away their sense of control over their gambling adventure.
Changing wheels speeds after no more bets also scares the regulars off and drives them back to the live games. I've talked with the avid players and I know how they feel. Roulette players/keno players/lotto players...they see conspiracies all the time. In some ways they are like birds. They startle easily.
Interblok appears to have done a fine job of giving players a since of control of some of their games. Much much better than Shuffle Master has. For example, the big six wheel where the player gets to pull the handle. That ridiculous handle (of course random as heck), makes players believe that they have a fair shot at winning money. The roulette games are really no different. As long as the players can't really see the wheel changing speeds after no more bets, they don't see the ball bouncing too much, and they can place their bets after the ball is spinning... will feel as though they're getting a fair shake. Take away any of it, and they'll wig out! I believe this is why IB has dominated their competition at the same games. I'm sure the games are sufficiently random as they are.
Now here's what most people don't know. All of these new LIVE roulette wheels that you see around town, at the Bellagio, Ven, MGM, etc ( the Cammegh wheels) they have an RRS (Random rotor servo) system in them that purposefully changes the wheel speed after no more bets has been placed... to thwart advantage players. In other words, like the machines the rotors change speeds during the spin. It's just that the roulette junkies don't perceive the speed changes like they do on some of the machines. Also the live games still allow bets after the ball is spun, which is why the regulars still prefer them. I suppose if you want to argue you could argue that the live wheels are attempting to beat the players as well.
I prefer a live game or good game of craps. I feel that I have more control over the game than I would if I was playing a machine. And yes, I know the dice are supposedly rigged too!
-Keyser
In general, roulette players are some of the weirdest people you will meet. I once met one that would cover his electronic game screen with cardboard because he thought surveillance was watching to see what he'd bet so that they could steer the ball away from his numbers! They tend to be very conspiracy minded from the get go. (And NO I'm not talking about Mr. S or whatever his name is here.) I'm referring to the real roulette junkies. Many roulette players won't play the electronic versions of it because they don't allow bets after the ball is spun *even when they're betting on the outside/red/black/etc..* It's because they simply don't trust the game. They think it will 'shoot against them.' Again, if a machine calls off bets before a ball is spun, roulette players will see the game as being RIGGED against them. So reprogramming a machine to call 'no more bets' before the ball is spun, or a ball that bounces to much just spooks the junkies away from the game. It takes away their sense of control over their gambling adventure.
Changing wheels speeds after no more bets also scares the regulars off and drives them back to the live games. I've talked with the avid players and I know how they feel. Roulette players/keno players/lotto players...they see conspiracies all the time. In some ways they are like birds. They startle easily.
Interblok appears to have done a fine job of giving players a since of control of some of their games. Much much better than Shuffle Master has. For example, the big six wheel where the player gets to pull the handle. That ridiculous handle (of course random as heck), makes players believe that they have a fair shot at winning money. The roulette games are really no different. As long as the players can't really see the wheel changing speeds after no more bets, they don't see the ball bouncing too much, and they can place their bets after the ball is spinning... will feel as though they're getting a fair shake. Take away any of it, and they'll wig out! I believe this is why IB has dominated their competition at the same games. I'm sure the games are sufficiently random as they are.
Now here's what most people don't know. All of these new LIVE roulette wheels that you see around town, at the Bellagio, Ven, MGM, etc ( the Cammegh wheels) they have an RRS (Random rotor servo) system in them that purposefully changes the wheel speed after no more bets has been placed... to thwart advantage players. In other words, like the machines the rotors change speeds during the spin. It's just that the roulette junkies don't perceive the speed changes like they do on some of the machines. Also the live games still allow bets after the ball is spun, which is why the regulars still prefer them. I suppose if you want to argue you could argue that the live wheels are attempting to beat the players as well.
I prefer a live game or good game of craps. I feel that I have more control over the game than I would if I was playing a machine. And yes, I know the dice are supposedly rigged too!
-Keyser
StrangeMage
very interesting study. Thanks wizard for sharing this, i think this sets a good standard for other people who think they're being cheated to seriously analyze their claim with raw data only. and with a sample size that is significant.
interesting to me that this game is being promoted. i understand eliminating the croupier already improves the profitability of the game, but i think when there's machine interaction in anyway, people are more skeptical. if it were me running the show, i'd probably employ video screens to make bets (even offering options to buy 7 local bets in a row to speed up betting) and do payouts and have a live person pitch the ball. every roulette table i've ever seen spends 40% of it's time making payouts and another 10-15% of its time handling buy ins and cash outs. having the machine do the payouts would accelerate the game by at least double, and a live person with a normal wheel would eliminate the skepticism of any players. now that dealer might be bored out of their mind, but hey, that's why its a job.
interesting to me that this game is being promoted. i understand eliminating the croupier already improves the profitability of the game, but i think when there's machine interaction in anyway, people are more skeptical. if it were me running the show, i'd probably employ video screens to make bets (even offering options to buy 7 local bets in a row to speed up betting) and do payouts and have a live person pitch the ball. every roulette table i've ever seen spends 40% of it's time making payouts and another 10-15% of its time handling buy ins and cash outs. having the machine do the payouts would accelerate the game by at least double, and a live person with a normal wheel would eliminate the skepticism of any players. now that dealer might be bored out of their mind, but hey, that's why its a job.
Keyser
These days, I feel that players need to feel like they have a fair shot at winning some money. Which is something they don't feel they currently have at many of the games, like 6/5 blackjack. This is why they choose to buy beer instead. You can always trust beer. But only one beer... because remember, you also have to pay for parking.
Sandybestdog
Electronic Roulette Machine Rigged Machine
I sat down and watched one of these a couple of times for awhile. I timed the wheel, the ball and where it tended to hit. It was all pretty consistent except the wheel spin. It was constantly changing speeds and would frequently do it right after the ball was released.
Changing the amount of time after the ball is released to still make bets is irrelevant. If you were clocking this thing you could make your bets with 30 seconds remaining because you would know when and where the ball would be released and could time it accordingly. But the wheel speed absolutely changed randomly and to different speeds. I don't know, this is just my observation. I could be missing something. I certainly wouldn't be talking here if I knew how to beat it.
Changing the amount of time after the ball is released to still make bets is irrelevant. If you were clocking this thing you could make your bets with 30 seconds remaining because you would know when and where the ball would be released and could time it accordingly. But the wheel speed absolutely changed randomly and to different speeds. I don't know, this is just my observation. I could be missing something. I certainly wouldn't be talking here if I knew how to beat it.